Should killers get whole life tariffs?

Originally Posted by Shakey

“seems a lot of people getting wound up. But some good comments. As joe bloe public, just tell us what a scumbag has got. Forget life sentence, just tell us 20 years, nothing less. Forget he was a good boy and kept saying sorry. The judge saide 20, he does 20 end of ”

There speaks the voice of reason. Joe public want clear simple justice. Nothing complex, simple tarrif where 20 years actually meens 20 years, this just might act as a deterent, everyone knows where they stand and justice will appear to be served. Far too many people are getting rich on the back of a very complex legal system. 

Just seen that there is talk of a come back for the firing squad in the USA following the botched execution last month.

Didnt know that it was only 4 years ago, that the last person was executed by this method.

One quote of a local resident - 

"I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions” - does that remind you of anyone 

The full article is here - BBC News - Will firing squads make a comeback in the US?

You missed the first bit of the quote

"I realize this may sound harsh,"

It makes me feel physically sick. 

This is such a divisive and emotive topic. Neither side of the argument has the whole answer or even the moral high ground. As a civilized species we are unable to agree on the best solution to the most serious crimes.

Even America can't decide, many states outlaw the death penalty, many embrace it. You would think that a country like America could analyse its crime figures and compare states that use it and those that don't. I have never seen any data to suggest that capital punishment can and does act as a deterrent however (as we have said before) it does feed the public's thirst for revenge on behalf of the state.

A friend of mine once argued that we (as a society) would not think twice about killing a dangerous dog that had attacked a child so why do we continue to "mess" around with criminals who hurt people (children in particular)..?

I agreed that killing dangerous dogs was widely supported by the public, however, I then asked if his son became responsible for the death of a child through drink or dangerous driving would he readily condemn him to die or would he "as a parent" try to find an argument against the death penalty? A reason to ask for clemency..? Would he love his son any less..? My friend said that was not the same argument, I replied it was worse, in my scenario the child dies. 

The point I am trying to make is this, it is very easy to pass judgement and the death penalty on a dangerous dog, a child killer, a rapist and others, when you have no emotional attachment. The media often present and sensationalize a story to the point where the public condemn the defendant before he or she has had a trial. "Revenge" for that horrendous crime becomes the only viable outcome.

I believe in euthanasia and the individuals right to die, a final act of kindness for someone or something (usually pet dogs) that I have loved and cared for over many years. So I am not afraid of death or even making that decision (I have made it many times for pet dogs and I watched my father die of cancer very, very slowly). However I could not agree or support the killing of another human being on the grounds of revenge. For me that makes our civilized society equally as guilty as the man being executed. 

I could be wrong, I may be branded as a tree hugging, bleeding heart liberal. (For those that do not know me I can assure you I am not), however on this topic I prefer to be cautious, getting it wrong, even once could be fatal.....

anyway, on a brighter note, its Saturday.....don't have to think about murder again until Monday. 

Absolutely spot on Ray, what a cracking post. (and hope you had a glorious weekend) 

Its very easy for me to sit in my chair and pass judgement to the horrors of crime i fortunately have no knowledge of except what i'm fed by the media.

But I was assaulted many years ago, the culprit was found, charged, sentenced, fined and ordered to reimburse the cost of replacing the teeth he knocked out, but nothing for the pain, loss & suffering i went through whilst having the procedures to replace the teeth, for that yes i'm bitter but wouldn't have the guy shot. Public flogging maybe??? 

I too watched my father die, bloody cancer, but he didnt suffer too much as he went from diagnoses to death in 77 days!  I think that one does have the right to "check out" when the pain becomes too much to bear, but could i/should i have made that decision for him? Maybe, but the Law didnt allow that conversation to take place.

Yet i can take my cat to the vets to be put out if its misery for the same condition. BUT if i didnt take the cat in, i'm classed as a monster for not caring!!! The Law has to change to allow people the same dignity as your pet.

I applaud you Ray for doing a job that many of us, couldn't/wouldn't do - to be fair i have no patience in that department, pretty much why i didnt follow the family tradition of teaching, just couldn't do it. I stand by my opinion though, but accept that each and every case needs to be tried on its own merits and only the very worst cases should see the death sentence.

Like I said very intense topic, perhaps it should be debated more. 

I discussed it with a colleague today, she said if anyone attacked or hurt a family member she would instantly want to shoot the offender. However, she added that after a few moments and a deep breath she would resist the urge to take revenge. She would then become the better person.

Me? I don't think I could be that strong, even though I don't support capital punishment I have to accept my own weakness. "Family, friends and colleagues" are my weakness, in the heat of the moment and as a reactive response to the harm caused to me or mine I think I would instantly seek revenge. I also think I would demand the death penalty, that hatred would regrettably endure and not diminish over time. 

So, justice has to be the fair, moral, and impartial treatment of all persons by the state, not a lynch mob or the family members of the injured party.

“Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.” George Bernard Shaw.

or We could argue

“We should forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged.” Joe Abercrombi

Re death penalty, one quick point. 

Purely economically it's not worth doing. It costs 70% more to execute someone than just loff them up till they die. 

How do you work that out? What if someone is locked up for 30 years? Got prison guard codts, food clothing, medics etc etc

At current prices it would cost 1.5 million pounds to keep a prisoner for 30 years. With inflation that rises to about 2.6. Million. 

The cost of a bullet, less than £1. 

Does that make it easier to decide? Real Justice should not be decided on cost. If you were accused of a crime I am sure you would want your day in court, no matter what the cost. Trouble is the courts are jammed full of time wasters, people who are guilty and who should be put through fast track courts systems, go directly to jail, do not pass go and do not collect £200. 

Would that work? No, but it would keep the media happy.

Heckles start to rise - but first day back after a lovely 2 week break, so all is good 

You cannot put cost before a fair Trial, nor can you just put someone down because of the expense, but still think that a long term prisoner could and should give something back to the Community via unpaid work/labour of some sort.

Yes of course thats going to be a nightmare to manage and yes i do have visions of a chain gang breaking rocks somewhere , but surely its plausible to have them "earning" their keep somehow?