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So basically you're saying that in an environment where the workers were treated like children, they responded like children, and didn't internalise their work or company loyalty, developed the "it's a job" mentality, and were so ground down that it never occurred to them to try for something better or to act to change their circumstances, because it's not an environment where creativity is encouraged.

Which is fair enough. You want a bunch of mindless automatons who arrive at 9 and leave at 5 and never get enough qualifications to up and leave, that's the way to do it. And yes, it suits some workers to be in that kind of scenario, just like it suits some employers to have that kind of workforce.

But to expect someone to simply swallow the change from being treated like a respected adult to being treated like a child, and to expect them to be happy about that loss of respect and autonomy... it's never going to go down well and the price will be paid in terms of morale, motivation and attitude.

Personally, I disagree with drinking during the working day for much the same reasons you do. I'm not advocating it at all.

What I am saying is that I can see why the workers would be hacked off, not so much at the loss of the free beer, as at the company attitude changing from:
"Help yourselves to the product - we trust you not to be a---holes and to be capable of remembering, for yourselves, that it is illegal to drive drunk and that you should remain sober enough to work effectively."
to
"We think you are untrustworthy a---holes who are likely to get paralytic and then break the laws of the land on a daily basis if we don't stop you, you irresponsible halfwits."

I feel it has less to do with whether they can get drunk or not and more to do with the respect the company gives them.

It's like timed toilet breaks - who would you rather work for, the company who says "okay, you're old enough, responsible enough, and have enough of a work ethic to manage that for yourself," or the company who calls you in for a disciplinary because your average visit time is 1.3 minutes longer than they feel it should be?

Various sweets/chocolate manufacturers used to do something similar - new workers would generally make themselves ill on day 1 and then decide that unlimited sweets could still be enjoyed in moderation.

My money is on the upset not being caused by the limited beer, but on the process involved, with the lack of consultation adding insult to injury.

If it's unlimited, then I'd guess, there's a spigot and workers can wander up and fill their glasses themselves, and consider it a major job perk, not to mention the element of unspoken trust.

As soon as a limit is in place, there's going to be some middle-manager with a clipboard monitoring everybody, probably some kind of system that involves the worse elements of ID cards and token economies.

mine doesn't do that. I don't have an alexa toolbar.

I'm also a MFF user of long standing.

Got to say one thing for IE8 though.

The advert on TV at the moment.

For the "private" web browsing. Affectionately known as "p0rn mode".

They've suggested in the ad that this is a feature gentlemen can use while browsing to buy shiny jewellery for their beloved wives, and it's Not Suspicious At All Honest.

Nearly wet myself laughing at that. Himself came out with the comment "it probably took them an afternoon to program it, and then a month to come up with a legitimate reason why people would want it..."

Well, keep us posted...

Well then, I will be looking forward to a status report at 1300 telling us they hired you on the spot.

I do use google docs, and I find it very useful, but only for the sort of documents that I want to be able to get at absolutely anywhere, or that I will be sharing/collaborating on. For most of my day-to-day stuff I prefer having it saved locally and being able to work without being reliant on connectivity, plus of course the increased functionality offered by full local software.

Not sure how much sense it'll make to the community here, but on another forum I compared it as the difference between a barbecue and a fully equipped and fitted kitchen - sometimes, particularly if you're out and about, a barbecue is exactly what you need, plastic cutlery and all. But for the everyday stuff, or for things where you want to be a bit more professional or do something a bit more complicated, a fitted kitchen is easier.

I think it would work better combined with proper expert input from Occupational Therapists who would be prepared to do workplace visits and also assess the home situation (no point saying you're "fit" to do a typing job if you aren't fit to wash, groom and dress yourself before work each morning).

My GPs over the years have been really frustrated by some of the paperwork they've been asked to fill out about me where they are asked for knowledge they do not have and are expected to sign a statement as to the truth of it. Like the form asking if I needed assistance to have a bath, and the GP glaring at it in exasperation saying "well, I'd imagine you do, but how am I supposed to know? I've never seen your bathroom!" I can envisage the same thing happening along the lines of "how am I supposed to know if you have the strength and stamina to operate the Whateveritis machine? I've never seen a Whateveritis machine!"

GPs are expert in general family medicine, not in workplace adaptations or employment law.

Aww, thanks Mike - there was me thinking I was being a gloomy cynic with a tendency to over-think things!


oh, wait...


;-)