By hdm : Forum Member Published 9th August 2011 | Last comment 21st August 2011If you think about it, its all over the place, not just in the UK. You guys just took a bit longer for it all to hit the fan. Here, in the beginning, you had to be able to prove you were poor before you could pay less school fees to get government to help you. I think you still have to actually. Things are changing though, slowly but surely, where people are creating new "benefits" for people. But in the end they don't realize that all they are doing is making sure that these people don't go out to look for work or try further themselves, because the government takes care of them. If you think about it, in a job, you could be fired at any time, and you're left with nothing, which makes a monthly grant seem like no work for money, and its always given to you on time, for nada.
I left school in 94, my matriculation completed, dreaming about what I could become. Lawyer, programmer etc. and it was all just that. A dream. I felt bad about it, I was upset, angry.. but I made other arrangements. I worked where I could, did my job the best way I knew how and just kept at it. Now, I have two brilliant girls, way ahead of their time in comparison to kids their own age, and I am scared. They have the same high expectations, and I am scared that they won't be able to accomplish them yet. Bless the internet though. I have learnt so much already just by working and reading and studying day and night, that I can show them where they can actually make their dreams come true.
In a way, I can seriously relate to they way these people feel. I had a bad background, and my upbringing because of that might have been a complete flip to what it was if I had been left with my real parent, but where it was meant to confuse me, scare me, and just generally make me into someone that shouldn't give a hoot, it turned me into the person I am now. I saw two different life spectrum's, and benefited from learning from each of them.
People being given something, constantly, become lazy. They become accustomed to that way of doing things and it molds itself into their personalities. "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime" (I think...).
It still rings true today, and I believe that its not just the government that needs to see this. People need to take responsibility and teach their children to work hard for what they want. To learn from their daily lives instead of living it.
“But are we really more affluent? The state pumps money into nearly every home in one form or another? Christ, we even got given a In a way, we have the same thing here. Government take care of the kids, and you if you have em and can't afford them, and if you are terminally ill (certain immune deficiency virus)
then they help even more. It's as if the government is saying, go right ahead, we got loads of money to look after you...
In the end, what happens? You have populations booming all over the place, and the government is spending more money trying to feed everyone, than rather trying to educate them, house them, and create work for them. The kids born out of that are reliant on the government for everything, and don't have a clue on how to do anything for themselves. It's kinda harsh, but to be honest, most governments don't look at the entire picture. They try fix something here, try sort out a problem there, and in the end they miss the plot entirely.
As part of my day job I see & work with "younger" criminals who are third generation unemployed. The term we use is learned helplessness. They argue to have few opportunities, no prospects and no future. With nothing to lose they often drift in to alcohol and drug abuse. Using state benefit to fund a feckless and aggressive existence they become, confrontational and very predatory. This behaviour is not challenged enough by my colleagues and we have for a very long time tried to listen to the voice of our youth, we try to understand the problem and we make allowance for a poor economic outlook. I call it making excuses.
Well I am sorry but when I left school at 16, poor grades, jealous of my brother who was the clever one I was forced by my parents to look for work. I had to pay my way in life even though my prospects looked bleak. At my fathers "request" I started a five year tool making apprenticeship. The first year was about learning to respect my qualified peers who in turn repaid that respect by teaching me the job.
At 20 my hobby and interest in Rugby League gave me an opportunity to turn professional. I made a good living from both roles. As I became too fat and too old (for the rugby) my engineering job took me around the world several times. Made redundant twice, I looked for other things to do. Following in my brothers footsteps I went to university at the tender age of 38. Got a degree in Community Justice and Law and started my current role as a Probation Officer. I also set up a business with my wife and I do work seven days per week.
The point I am trying to make is that “...I will always help them but I expect, no I demand the respect that I have earned and I also expect them to work for their dreams, create their own opportunities and invest in their own future! ”
I think that's the key, good old fashioned family values, and less reliance on the state.
Must admit, it's encouraging by the volume of charges the police are making, and the fast processing of offenders by the courts.
It may cause a short spike and overload an already overloaded system for a while, but the lesson has to be clear that behavior like this can't be tolerated.
Erm, do have a far more controversial plan, we could revisit the age old deportation idea, by exporting all of our offenders. Obviously it's unfair these days to use Australia again, so how about Somalia? A hostile lawless land that's had 10 years of total anarchy, and forgotten by the western world. Sounds perfect 
For a lot of people the 'family' has never existed so they never had family values, both parents either out of work or out at work. Those out of work end up being depressed with a "whats the point" attitude. Those with both parents at work end up as latchkey kids so end up being left to their own devices. Either option cannot be good for the child's upbringing. Each generation seems to have it's own set of problems with the youth of the day and long will it continue. Even as far back as 20 odd years ago the USA had feral youth gangs and the suggestion was that one day it would arrive here, but what did anyone do about it? Nothing, so everyone is partly to blame for recent events. Yes we can bang them all up, evict them from their social housing, stop their benefits, you can even birch them...But then what are you going to do with them? It's a different world now from what it was in the 50s,60s and 70s totally different culture and way of life. If they said in the 70s you will work 7 days a week up until your 70 there may well have been another riot then, but now we seem to have excepted it. We need to get to the root cause of what is rotten in this country and deal with it. It is in general a nasty big brother country, financial penalties for the smallest of misdemenours like parking for example, We also need to make things fair for everyone not just for the select few.
We all have a choice at the moment, we can just punish those that have recently been rioting or we can punish and deal with the issues that have caused it to happen in the first place. If we just punish and most are being sent down because of the media coverage then expect some rough times ahead because it's only going to get worse.. “We all have a choice at the moment, we can just punish those that have recently been rioting or we can punish and deal with the issues that have caused it to happen in the first place. ”
Politically motivated Riots I can understand, it can be how society evolves. But where was the political motivation over this recent disturbance? The initial root cause, ie the shooting seemed to be overlooked, or used as a nice excuse to grab yourself a new Iphone or TV.
Lawlessness and thievery is what it is. There's plenty of good kids out there, wonder what those teenage squaddies who have been through the Afghanistan meat grinder think.
A broken home isn't the best start for anyone, neither's one that reliant on state dependence, or kids that are taught how much they can get out of the system for free, by terminally unemployed parents.
But everyone has a starting place on the grid, Henry may be currently in poll position with his posh accent and private school education, but he'll never have the motivation, passion or drive of Bob who grew up with parents on benefit and wants to better himself, and his future kids.
Do we punish all or forgive though? It's a tough one. In my simple mind, a thief is a thief. I think there's going to be bad feeling whatever course of action is taken, it's times like this where you a re glad to be an arm chair pundit rather than be an MP and have to try and take responsibility of this mess. There's more evidence by the day that prolonged stress during the developmental stages damages brain development, including the ability to empathise with others. Prolonged stress also damages adults (eg through its impact on mental health, the immune system and so on.
If you want to raise a generation of dangerous thugs, a good way of doing it is to put the kids in environments where they can't feel secure or relaxed (eg in dysfunctional families, sink estates and schools where bullying is rife). The more pressure you put people under (eg poverty, insecure housing, chronic unemployment, etc), the more likely it is they won't cope and you and they will be left with the problems and costs of them not coping.
I feel the rioters are only the extreme tip of the iceberg. Far too many people are fearful, financially over-stretched and tired.
Personally, I'd rather live in a community more at ease with itself and more caring for all its members than in the unhappy, economically and socially polarised society we've got now.
Linda
CareersPartnershipUK
I think you'll find we'll have a bit more of what we've had recently and only those who choose to be blind will refuse to except that. I'm not on one side or the other, but if I was a youngster involved with the recent riots and now facing incarceration, apart from gaining some more street cred from my mates. I'd also be asking the question how can this be fair, after all those that govern us have be robbing everyone and have not been held accountable for their actions, yet I've gone out nicked a few pairs of jeans and a couple of bottles of drink and I'm facing jail...dosen't quite seem to be fair, does it? |
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