Should killers get whole life tariffs?

It's common to think that crime is increaing but it isn't. It's been falling in all developed countries for the last 25 years. No-one really knows why but it's now an accepted fact.

I don't usually read Daily Mail articles, but for once they actually have a good story about it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313942/UK-Peace-Index-Rate-murders-violent-crime-falling-faster-Western-Europe.html#ixzz30axjijoC

I think you can manipulate data to show all sorts of stats to suit ones argument.

According to the article in Steves point Rape & sexual crime is on the increase and the highest for a decade. And a 32% increase of a sexual offence including a child under 13 - that's a number you can't ignore.

Like i pointed out, certain crimes maybe lower and that can skew the stats, so whilst overall crime maybe down, certain areas of crime are on the up.

But by picking one statistic out of a whole set, you are manipulating the argument yourself aren't you? The statistics are saying that even when the rise in sexual offences are factored in (which appears to be caused by the historic revellations from Saville et al), there is an overall fall of 15% in crime. The fall isn't just this year, it's been falling year on year in all developed nations for many years.

It's interesting that a lot of people don't feel this to be the case, I think that's because the media reports day in and day out about individual horrendous crimes - which still exist of course - and the headline of 'no one burgled/raped/murdered yesterday in Swindon' never gets written.

Hi CJD

Sorry, thats exactly what i meant, you can use the stat to add weight to both sides of the fence.

Do agree with you though the media does sensationalise things which gets the public banging the drum.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but my point was that you can't undermine the general point that crime has been falling for many years, just by pointing out that one or more individual crimes within the overall statistic is/are rising

In business terms, if you report a year on year increase in profit of 5% in your hardware business but lose 20% of fork handles, it doesn't mean that you're making a loss.

It's just an interesting point that there has been this year on year fall in crime across all developed countries but the general perception by the public is that crime is on the rise and generally, when people hear that, their first reaction is to say that the stats are wrong.

I still stand by my original point, life should mean life and in the worst cases the death penalty.

We now have a wonderful addition to the society currently on the loose from an open prison - he had 13 yes 13 life sentences handed to him - someone tell me what possible useful contribution this person has to offer to our society? Thats assuming of course he is caught before he cracks someone elses skull, probably gets given another life sentence, yet will still be out in the near future for good behavior.

Hang him & be done with it.

Crime is up or down, its actually irrelevant to my point - life should mean life! How many criminals get released on licence, or serve half their time yet re-offend and get sent back, what a waste of MY taxes.

Well I'm with you on life meaning life. In fact I'd abolish the phrase and just say what the exact sentence is. Your man with 13 life sentences was actually sentenced to a minimum of 8 but had served 12 when he did a bunk. (He's obviously an idiot - he was going to be released on licence, now he's goig back for another long stretch.)

All prison sentences are given with the up front knowledge that only half will be served -unless there's bad behaviour to be considered, so an 8 year term is actually 4, plus 4 on licence. About half of all prisioners released on licence re-offend so it works for about half - which means you've saved 50% of your taxes.

As for capital punishment, I'm against it for moral and personal reasons, but luckily for me we also know that it doesn't deter others from murder and costs more that locking people away so I can also rationalise it. 

100% agree - sentences should be set as tariffs and not as you say go in knowing you will only serve half.

Also our man in question, wasn't the sharpest tool in the box in the first place to walk in to several banks waving a firearm without wearing his mums tights!

By setting a tarrif one must assume that before any release will be considered, the risk of reoffending and potential harm presented by the offender will need to be assessed. That will require experienced proffessionals and a system that is structured and equitable. That system will also be criticised by those who feel our criminal justice system either fails to meet society's thirst foe revenge or a governments weakness in addressing anti social behaviour. Being tough on crime and the causes of crime is a good vote winner. Regrettably the current establishment simply wants to do it on the cheap. 

We do have a system, it's not perfect, I accept that. However, I do wish that we could educate the public about the work of the police, prisons, CPS and probation. I would also like to remove the politics from the issue because justice should be blind, we should assume an individual,is innocent until proven guilty and any punishment of the court should reflect the severity of the crime and serve to protect the public. 

Ray, think you have actually hit the nail square on it's head.

Forget death penalty right wrong for now, but just simple logic to a crime that's been committed.

Maybe its wrong to drag any recent news events in to this, but for armed robbery, it looks like you get a life conviction, but within a life conviction there are many different tariffs you could serve. Who sets these?

I stupidly assumed life meant, well life, but it appears its around 25 years. Yet someone with 13 life convictions gets to serve around 8-12 years